Murder in Hollywood with TV Producer Mark Grenside

Interview with Mark Grenside

 Emma Dhesi  00:00

 Hello, I’m Emma Dhesi and welcome to another episode of turning readers into writers. If you’re brand new here, welcome. And here’s what you need to know. This is a community that believes you are never too old to write your first novel, no matter what you’ve been up to until now, if you’re ready to write your book, I’m ready to help you reach the end, I focused on helping you find the time and confidence to begin your writing journey, as well as the craft and skills you need to finish the book.

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 Mark Grenside, born and raised in London, began his working career straight out of school at Lloyds of London, specializing in kidnap ransom and extortion insurance. At 25. It was time for a career change and to dump the suit and tie. So he started his media career working for Jim Henson and the Muppets.

 From that moment on, he has been involved in entertainment and in nearly every aspect of it. He went on to create and produce several television series and miniseries, and at the same time, he started a music management company, launching million seller artists Naina charing in 2004, he arranged the $250 million buyout of the Hallmark Channel International, which was then successfully taught to NBC, he returned to producing a number of movies and miniseries.

 But more recently, he has morphed into a serial entrepreneur, and is now a co founder of seed to shelf CBD producer, dragonfly bio sciences, and I found her in two separate digital companies, in addition to his love of cooking, and unhealthy amount of time and money is lavished on a collection of classic cars that he has raced all over the world.

 He enjoys risk and has parachuted in New Zealand scuba dived in the Pacific hang gliding in the Himalayas, and even Tuborg into down the Cresta run, in nearly every case, chasing after his wife, who he says is utterly fearless Fallout was Mark’s debut novel and was published in May of 2020.

 And he’s now writing the follow up in titled The Bastion. In addition, he writes a humorous blog with subscribers in more than 40 countries. He has two grown sons, two daughters in law, three grandchildren, and now lives in Malta with his wife and two French Bulldogs.

 So let’s find out a little bit more about Mark’s varied career and what he’s up to now. Well, Mark, thank you so much for joining me today. I’m really thrilled to talk to you.

 Mark Grenside  03:55

 You’re welcome. Thanks for asking. 

 Emma Dhesi  03:57

 And I want to say first of all, congratulations on the release of your debut novel, Fallout. And that was released to me this year. So congratulations on that. That’s a really big thing. 

 Mark Grenside  04:07

 Yes. 

 Emma Dhesi  04:08

 Tell me about it. Tell tell the listeners about your book and who it’s about.

 Mark Grenside  04:13

 Well, my background has been mainly film and television. And I decided it was timeto try to create a franchise with the backdrop of movies and I’m not comparing like for like, but in the same way that John Grisham uses law in the light deck Francis used horse racing although his son is continuing it, I thought it was time to try and writewith some degree of knowledge, a background in the film and television industry, which obviously, I’ve been involved in for sort of 35 years.

But the stories themselves, actually, although they always open in the film industry, and not actually about when you get to the end, you realize it’s not about the film industry. So in this one, the story starts with a very successful screenwriter, sending out five copies of his latest screenplay to a group of people.

He is murdered in a break in. And the five people who get the scripts were all involved in a movie that stopped shooting 25 years earlier. And they begin to understand slowly, that inside his new blockbuster movie, are clues as to what happened and to why that movie stopped being made.

And to lead protagonist as a producer, and someone who builds stands down in can, which is a huge business. And eventually they follow the leads and avoid getting murdered themselves. And the discovery of why the movie stop shooting has nothing to do with the movie industry. In fact, it’s based on probably the greatest crime in the last century, the very few people know about it, so I’m not going to go into any more. 

 Emma Dhesi  06:19

 Oh, okay. Not many of us… 

 Mark Grenside  06:21

 Have read the book…

 Emma Dhesi  06:22

Yeah. So well, I was thinking of the Great Train Robbery, but clearly, you know….

 Mark Grenside  06:25

 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, it was in current, current values in the trillions. 

 Emma Dhesi  06:32

 Wow, okay. Oh yes.

 Mark Grenside  06:34

 It’s all historically. Correct. So, I like to think that when you read the book, it’s quite like I wrote it, obviously, of the background of movies. It’s very visual. And the dialogue is quite short and as web smart, I hope. So it’s very much like reading a movie. I brought all that knowledge of producing movies into writing the book. So hopefully, you know, it’s an easy fun, fast read, and in an environment that everybody thinks they know about. But they don’t…

 Emma Dhesi  07:14

 Get to get the behind the scenes. Oh, it does sound interesting. I really like it and I love the cover. I think the cover is great as well. 

 Mark Grenside  07:20

 Yes, that was designed by a lady in Ireland. It was wonderful. 

 Emma Dhesi  07:23

 Lovely. I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. So listeners can go and find it. Now, you’ve mentioned that you you’ve obviously you’ve you’ve worked in production, screenwriting in Hollywood, so you’ve made a number of pivots. I’ve, in the introduction, I sort of outlined your your background, so people know that you’ve had quite a mixed back background.

And you started in the City of London, with Lloyds of London. So very pinstripe, very. I want to say rigid, but certainly very proper, shall we say Lloyd’s of London. But then you pivoted out of that into the Mad cap world of the Muppets and Jim Henson. What made you want to make that move? And how did you make that pivot? 

 Mark Grenside  08:10

 Well, within the confines of Lloyds and insurance, what I was actually doing was very much on the ragged edge. I did kidnap ransom insurance, I did products extortion, ie when companies get rung up, and people have infiltrated somewhere and put something nasty in their product.

I used to do arms insurance for major arms, manufacturers like General Motors. So I was always on the sort of raggedy edge of of that business. And I was always considered a bit of a maverick in what I was doing. And it just happened that a guy that I shared an office with his brother in law, worked for Jim Henson.

And I always wanted to be involved in film and television. And I had no desire to spend the rest of my life wearing a suit and tie. And, you know, in life if you’re persistent, it gets you a long way. And I was very persistent. And I got to know this guy who sadly died. Now a man called Peter Orton very, very well.

And he sent me out with an interview with Jim Henson. And they were just starting a new company called Henson international television. And they were just about to they were just finishing the Muppet Show, and about start on Fraggle Rock, and I got the job, and I never looked back.

And although it was, you know, looking back, it’s strange. But you know, if you’re the master of your own destiny, and without sounding arrogant, I’ve always walked to the beat of my own dram, as far as I’m concerned, I’m going forward. It’s only when you look behind you. And you see the zigzags. Right? As far as I was concerned, it was a logical step.

I didn’t want to be in the city anymore. And, you know, I went to work for the Muppets, which was very cool and great fun. 

 Emma Dhesi  10:09

 Very cool. Indeed. Yes. I remember Fraggle Rock a very well.

 Mark Grenside  10:14

 Very clever show Fraggle Rock. And I’ll tell you something that many of your listeners may not understand. Fraggle Rock is a jigsaw show, in fact, in the same way as Sesame Street. Now, if you’re English. All the scenes underground require no lip sync, and it’s just puppets. But when the character gobo comes out of his hole in the UK, it was originally Fulton Mcki, in a lighthouse.

But we reshot those things. So in France, it was a chef in Germany, it was a garage mechanic in United States, Canada, he was a Beachcomber. Now, what happened, then, was that if you sew the pieces back together, if you have a French actor interrelating with gobo, and then everything else, you don’t require lip sync to dub it.

The audience in France thought that show was 100% made in France, and they won’t believe you when they say, No, no, no, it was all shot in Canada, which is where we did those sequences. So it was a very, very clever show, because for a broadcaster, all he had to reproduce is the costs of the scenes.

As I said, with the whole it was the same hole, and then introduce a different character. And then the postcards from traveling map was shot in all the all the territories that we did those co productions in was a very, very clever show. And Sesame Street is the same. 

 Emma Dhesi  11:50

 Yeah, yeah. Oh, lovely. So that was the kind of pivot that you made, right at the beginning. And then more recently, you’ve moved into the entrepreneurial space, because I’m guessing that when you were working for the Muppets, and Jim Henson and then Hallmark and some of the other big companies, you know, that was sort of M corporates, very corporate.

So now you’ve moved into the kind of more entrepreneurial space. And you’ve co founded a CBD producer called dragon fly bio sciences, as well as two separate digital companies. So I was really interested in this particularly and the CBD dragon fly bio sciences, what’s, what’s drawn you to first of all to that, and then also to entrepreneurship. 

 Mark Grenside  12:38

 Well, I think I mean, if I got back a little bit on what you says, in the terms of entertainment industry, I was, I wasn’t really that. Again, like, I was like, in Lloyds. I wasn’t really that conservative. I never worked for a major like Warner’s or Disney. I never worked for a network.

I was always an independent producer in the sense that I wasn’t part of a major outfit. And, in fact, the reason I got into writing a book is that when you make a movie or a television show, it’s very collaborative. Whereas if you write a book, there’s only one person to blame. As for the dragon fly, I mean, it’s in boots and tescos and Harrods and Sainsbury’s and God knows where that came about.

I just finished a miniseries for universal and sky called Neverland, which was the backstory of Peter Pan with all sorts of people in Anna Friel and Risa fans, in fact, they met on that set and they fell in love. Bob Hoskins was in it because he was recreating the role of Smee he did for Spielberg. Anyway, I finished that finish that I was in Los Angeles.

And a friend of mine, who was a also a producer who produced the movie, The Butler, and I, we were having lunch, and he was talking about, you know, marijuana and all this stuff. And, you know, he’d like to export it into Europe, and I knew nothing about it. So Charles, you’re out of your mind.

They’re not going to regulate, they’re not going to do the criminalize it. And I didn’t think very much of it. But I spoke to another friend of mine, who just sold his business for a couple of 100 million to John Malone. He was a very successful cable and satellite operator, and he was looking for something to do and I said, Hey, listen, you know, why don’t you talk to my friends? bla bla bla, and I left it alone. And about six months later, I rang him and he said, Listen, I think there’s something in this.

The only thing I don’t understand is why on earth would we buy stuff grown in America when we can do it for a 10th of the price if we do it in Europe, nobody knew what CBD was then so we all threw some money in. And blinders backs are full of hope we jumped off a cliff. And I don’t know, we, we harvested last year, nearly 2000 acres.

It’s probably 500,000 kilos. And I think we’re the biggest now in in Europe. And, and it was just something different. I mean, I, it you can either say it’s a plus or a minus, I’ve never actually done the same thing for more than five or six years. And even when I worked in film and television, I was involved in records for a while at none a charity, for example, I worked in TV production, then TV distribution, then I ended up buying the Hallmark Channel internationally.

So I became a network owner. Then I went back to producing and I wrote a book, then I did so that’s kind of who I am, I’m sure it’d be a lot richer, if I stuck type thing, but I’d be bored 

 Emma Dhesi  16:03

 Excessive, it wouldn’t be as much fun with it.

 Mark Grenside  16:06

 No. And wouldn’t be as much fun. 

 Emma Dhesi  16:11

 So you’ve you’ve, as you mentioned, you know, you’ve done a lot of different miniseries and TV series. And I’m just wondering, just kind of thinking about the entrepreneurship. When you start a new project, a new TV or film project, is that like starting a new startup is a new cast a new crew there.

 Mark Grenside  16:29

 Very, it’s very, very similar. It’s very similar. I mean, look, I’m not talking exclusively here, because it depends. Who you are, you know, if you’re a major talent, like a writer, director, a showrunner, who are the people who really control Hollywood now, because all the money is in television, not movies. You can dictate terms and get things made.

But I was just, you know, one have lots of what they call executive producers. And my role was to find a project, package it finance it. And as soon as the money was in place, I would kind of step back. In fact, in the book, for light, there’s a scene where two of them are saying, she’s talking about reading credit, saying I’ve never understood the difference between executive producer, producer, associate producer, co producer.

And he goes through and explains it to her in a very funny way. I hope but. But as an executive producer, that’s what I used to do. So for example, on Treasure Island with ideas I did for sky, the starting point was I think Eddie would make a great silver. And it started from there.

And then we put it together a bit went to sky and they were interested, they put up some money. And then we went to the again, universal in the United States, and they put up a bit of money, and then we find out some of it ourselves through tax deals. And that’s how you how it goes…

Emma Dhesi  18:13

Of problem solving…

Mark Grenside  18:14

It’s very much like Star and it has the same success rate. You know, you know, you’ve only got a back 51. You know, you don’t have to battle 100. And, yeah, it’s very similar. 

Emma Dhesi  18:30

So it’s, it’s I mean, I, you know, I think from that we’ve gotten a real great sense of how varied your working life has been, you’ve tried so many different things, and you’ve got a lot of things going on at the one time. And I know that one of the things that my audience tells me they battle with a lot of the time is, is managing all the things, you know, how do you fit in writing around a paid job around family, around a social life?

So how do you manage all of the other things are going because I know that you love doing adventure sports, and you live a very active life. So how do you fit everything in and then managed to squeeze in that solitary time to do your writing?

Mark Grenside  19:11

Well, as someone who’s totally undisciplined, I’m afraid, boils down to discipline. You know, there’s always the time if you are willing to sacrifice doing something else. Now, that’s easy to say, when my kids are all grown up and everything and I understand it’s very difficult. But the truth of the matter is where there’s a will there’s a way I mean, look at JK Rowling she came out of an unhappy marriage.

She started writing it in a coffee shop, but the Harry Potter books, plenty of other writers come with all sorts of monkeys on their back. I think the truth is, you just have to face the hard fact that you got to do I mean, I hate writing. I love editing. I hate writing. And when I am writing, I’ve got the cleanest nails, the most polished shoes, the cleanest office.

Anything other than actually having to face a blank page. But the truth of the matter is it doesn’t write itself you have to do it. Now, I mean, people have different methods of doing it, which, you know, might make a difference. Um, I don’t. I don’t start with a skeleton and build it out. I’m as in the dark as the reader is.

When I start a book, I have absolutely no idea. What’s going to happen. I have a rough idea what the MacGuffin is, and that’s about it. So, you know, in the back of my mind when I’m writing, without overdoing it, I always say to myself, okay, what’s the most unexpected thing that you would expect to happen now, if that makes sense, is a bit of a reverse tautology.

But, but, but that’s what I try and do. Also, I find that subconscious is an amazing thing. It, he put in little details about something, you’re not quite sure why you’ve put it in. And then as I got closer to Danny Meyer, in the book, there’s a whole load of stuff that all hooked up together, that I had no understanding why I put them in.

But it made sense when I got to the end. So don’t don’t fight the subconscious. It’s a it’s a really great asset. And I suppose the only other thing from my point of view, as I said, I hate writing, I love editing. You just got to plow on and get to the end of that sentence or that paragraph. Even if you know, it doesn’t work. Put it down for because for me, it’s much easier to edit something that’s not very good, than to stare at a blank piece of paper. 

Emma Dhesi  21:52

Yeah, absolutely. 

Mark Grenside  21:53

I think you have to do that. But that’s just for me. I mean, I you know, for other people, it could be something totally different. But most writers, most professional writers, you know, I say that very loosely. But you could talk about, you know, Jeffrey Archer, or who’s the American guy sells, God knows how many bloody books, Peters anyway, any of those writers, usually they set aside, and a very disciplined, they’ll write from eight to 12.

Then they weren’t, they weren’t, they weren’t, they weren’t right for the rest of the day. Some people do a little bit more, some people do less. Some people are regular, some people are irregular, I used to, if I put aside some time to write, I was lucky. I didn’t have to go into an office or anything. And sometimes I would write for two days, sometimes I’d write for two hours. 

Emma Dhesi  22:50

Because that’s gonna be a question. Yeah. When you are writing, what does that routine look like? But it sounds like it’s not a specific routine. It’s….

Mark Grenside  23:01

But that’s just for me. I mean, I, you know, you can’t presume to understand how everybody else. You know what their rhythm is, mine’s very irregular. But, again, from years of being involved in film, and television, I’m very used to writing certain things in a linear sense. And then stopping and changing chapters around and moving things around.

I mean, in the movies, you basically work on something called a three act paradigm. So nearly every movie you see has three acts, the first act can be only 5-10 minutes, and it has a telescope of time. Usually it can be, it can go over an enormous period of time. The second act, which is the bulk of the movie is chasing the heroes up the tree, whether it’s an emotional tree, or an action tree, or whatever, that’s the second paradigm.

And it’s spread over a slightly more compressed time. And then the third act of the paradigm is the journeyman it’s nearly always current time. 

Emma Dhesi  24:17

Right? Okay. 

Mark Grenside  24:18

And that’s how most movies are written. Unless you’re Quentin Tarantino, who was the first person to break the three act paradigm. And if you look at his movies, they are actually linear. It’s just the way that he cuts them up when he’s writing them. So if you look at Pulp Fiction, and it opens with the honey bunny scene, you know, in that restaurant, that’s actually the end of the movie.

So what he did was, instead of keeping the three at paradin, together and changing the chapters within those acts, he would move them from one to the third act. And that’s basically how I would run I’d try and keep them to the paradigms.

Although my paradigms were parts of the books, if I had five parts of the book, I usually keep them within those five and move them around. But sometimes I’d move something from book one or part one to Part Four, if it made sense.

Emma Dhesi  25:19

This is with The TV stuff your TV scripts. 

Mark Grenside  25:22

It’s No no, if we’re if I’m writing a book now, I would usually follow the three act paradin formula, which is within those acts, those scenes, you change them around, except when you’re writing a book, it’s not a three act paradigm is usually done by the actual parts of the book, if you see what I mean.

So usually, I would change things around in parts of the book to see if that would make the narrative more interesting. But sometimes I would pull out a chapter from the opening of the book and put it in Part Five. But usually, I kept within the books, but I never never never ended up with any chapters in the place that I wrote them.

Okay, all move, they all moved back, which is very complicated when you come to a thriller with clues. Because there’s obviously it’s kind of Da Vinci esque in the way the clues are revealed, etc, etc. So that’s incredibly irritating. Because if you move things around too much, then the whole thing comes on done. So you have to be careful that.

Emma Dhesi  26:32

Yeah, no, I’m it because I was interested, when you were saying before that you don’t, you don’t, you don’t plot it out in advance. And so as someone who’s writing a murder story, a mystery story, I would have imagined that be quite a key part of the process, so that you know, when you are seeding clues when you’re doing the foreshadowing, and that you yourself know how it’s going to end. But sounds like you’re more of a discovery writer, and you sort of lose

Mark Grenside  26:58

I mean, I knew various, obviously, otherwise, you just go off into the desert, and you just, you know, you drive yourself insane. But much more than, again, without sort of sounding pretentious. If you read the book, you wouldn’t guess it. Right?

Just go this flows. And that’s clever. And yes, it flips through time a bit. There are basically three storylines going on the interviewees, and then we’ll meet at the end, but but I hope you won’t think it was disjointed, when you read it, but it was when it was being put together. It was definitely knit one, purl one stitch one.

Emma Dhesi  27:41

I am. So what was my question that came into my head there? Or is it gone now? And well? Yes, I wanted to ask you about dialogue. So obviously, coming from a screenwriting at ground, I imagine that your, as you alluded to earlier, very good with dialogue very sharp with it, know how to write it, did you find it more of a learning curve when it came to doing them?

The narrative bits of the story to fill in those bits around the dialogue? Because I don’t think scripts have very much exposition in them or direction in them. 

Mark Grenside  28:16

They do a bit. And you’ll see it in here because there are excerpts from the screenplay that the guy wrote. And it’s printed like, you would print a screenplay. It’s completely different from a book, you do have directions on scripts. Yes, I suppose if there’s one thing I brought with me, is that first of all, great dialogue is usually short. Secondly, great scenes with dialogues, certainly in movies and television, you come into the scene as late as possible.

You very, very rarely set up a dialogue, if you see what I mean, you’re usually coming in on the back of the dialogue. And thirdly, you know, it’s a cliche, and I’ll come on to the descriptive bits in a minute, but it’s a cliche, but character is action. ie, who the person is, is actually there’s a great example in Chinatown.

When Jack Nicholson is sitting in the car with Faye Dunaway, and she’s telling him she’s having an affair with Houston of place her father. Now in the original script, Nicholson is just sitting there listening to this, but jack decided to take out a cigarette with a lighter but didn’t light. And suddenly, that scene took on much more edge because he’s listening to something that you realize he doesn’t want to listen to.

And his frustration is being taken out as he repeatedly tries to light cigarette. So that character is action in that, in that scene Jonestown. So you have to bear that in mind when you’re writing dialogue as for exposition, you know, obviously, try not to use too many adjectives. You know, keep it short. You know, it’s a trick you can overwrite, and then edit back and choose the right adjective.

The pace of the sentence often reflects that the, the actual scene that you’re looking at surface, something peaceful and quiet. You can write in a more lyrical way. If you’re describing an action scene or a fight scene. It’s short, sharp and choppy. Does that make sense? 

Emma Dhesi  31:04

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Yes, yes, it does. 

Mark Grenside  31:07

And that that’s how you do it. There’s a rhythm to how you read. A lot of people say there’s a rhythm hire writers, right? I’m not sure. I’m sure that’s true. But the reality is that the rhythm should match the environment of what you’re reading backs. That’s true rhythm. And I, you know, I look back on all the days, I’ve been so rude to Rice’s in my life.

And and I apologize to all of them that because it’s unbelievably hard, and has some of them did, what they did, is beyond me, I’d never have the skill to do it. But again, it just depends on what you’re writing. I mean, obviously, thrillers are different from a romance from a different from a pure action are different, or even from a biography or whatever A memoire. But rhythm in your sentences must match the environment. 

Emma Dhesi  32:05

I’m guessing that as well, that’s something that comes with practice, part of the craft that comes over time, and you just have to keep doing your 1000 hours or 10,000 hours, you know, where you have to put in the the, the groundwork first before you’re able to fully understand that or fully communicate it with the language that you’re you’re using?

Mark Grenside  32:25

Yeah, I think it’s all to do. As I said, in my case, it’s all to do with the Edit, it doesn’t really matter, what you throw down to start with, it’s like a piece of clay, you just throw it down, and you roughly make it into a face or whatever. The craft comes later, when you when you pare that down, when you edit it down, when you pull it back to the basics.

And then you’ll get a sense of, of, as I said, If sentences are too long, or it’s too descriptive, you know, obviously try and avoid as much exposition as possible, because people hate it and slows everything down. You know? Also, it’s how you talk to the reader. You know, in my case, I was hoping to do with a wry smile, but also make them feel inclusive to the film and television industry.

So that they would go, I never understood that, rather than feel I was making a reveal because I’m more intelligent than they are. Do you understand what I mean? 

Emma Dhesi  33:36

Right? Okay. Yeah, aha.

Mark Grenside  33:38

You’ve got to have that. But it depends. You know, it depends how you do it, you know, Sherlock Holmes permanently made Holmes feel inferior. In my book, the two characters once a man and once a woman, they complement each other, which is quite unusual, because usually in a in a thriller, you have one whose superior intellect is drawn by a less intelligent partner, or in this case, because it’s also a love story, you are permanently battling with how they complement each other, and they make the other a better person.

Okay. So when you’re doing a romance, which is all about making, usually, you know, both of them better people than they were on their own. If you do that in a thriller environment, you can’t have one be more intelligent than the other. Does that make sense? 

Emma Dhesi  34:46

Yeah, they’ve got to be good partners, equal partners, both professionally and in life.

Mark Grenside  34:51

Certainly. You can get away with it professionally. You can get away with you know, poro and whatever is kept in Hastings, or whatever, you can do that. But you can’t. But first of all, it’s very odd. You know, it’s slightly old fashioned. But But secondly, you can’t do it when there’s a relationship between the people. And you know, the woman in this book.

The heroine is a Chinese American lady who’s very strong, much stronger than the guys actually originally. She’s very tough. And she’s very smart. And they have cracking dialogue between them. I mean, even I laugh, which, you know, all that hard. Somebody’s got to, but I hope that makes some degree of sense.

Emma Dhesi  35:39

It does do is I like and I think it’s I’m I’m guessing i’m not i i like thrillers, but I’m not a huge, hugely knowledgeable about the genre. But I’m guessing that element of having both the personal the romance between the partners as well as the working relationship is quite a nice spin on it. But it’s slightly more unusual telling. 

Mark Grenside  35:58

Yeah, I think it’s, well, I think there’s a number of of, of things going on here. But, you know, if you’re looking for a similar sorts of feel, and tempo, I suppose the remake, the Thomas Crown Affair is quite good, right? relationship between Rene Russo and piers, both of him work for me at some time. Now, it’s very interesting that because of COVID, there is a massive sea change going on in the thriller genre.

In that, essentially, from seven onwards, thrillers became very dark, you had a very damaged hero, right? The journey was very painful. And the crimes on the whole were pretty dark. It was mass murder, kids, abduction, drugs, obviously, it was very, very dark. And it’s interesting to note, that when that started, was the last Lethal Weapon moving. You just couldn’t do that kind of lightness of touch anymore.

Now, interestingly, the one of the most successful movies on netflix was a movie with Jennifer Aniston, which was a sort of caper movie in the south of France. With a very well known comedian, his name escapes me now. Nobody thought anything of it. But it was a huge success.

And that, okay, it’s called reveal. I can’t remember. Ah, I can’t remember it’s a silly little caper movie with the guy who should have got an Oscar nomination. Adam Sandler. And it sent all sorts of tremors through Hollywood, because it showed that we were coming to the end of a very dark period of thrillers. And I’m proved right because they’ve just signed lethal. The next Lethal Weapon movie. Wow, Danny and Mel have agreed to do it.

It just wouldn’t have happened five years ago, just so that leitmotiv I’m not saying My book is like lethal weapon or like it is quite In fact, we’re talking to the guy who wrote the screenplay for the Tom’s Cranford to because I’ve optioned this to do it as a series to see if he’ll write it as a as a 10 hour series. But there is a change going on at the moment. And I was lucky because I just had to write something that was kind of light and funny a bit. But that’s just lucky timing.

But I think the very dark, very introspective. stuff is coming to an end. It’s just a cycle. 

Emma Dhesi  39:02

Yeah, that’s it. So what made you make the move from writing scripts to writing novels? What was it that attracted you about?

Mark Grenside  39:10

I didn’t I didn’t write scripts as a producer. I worked on the scripts. 

Emma Dhesi  39:14

Right. Okay. 

Mark Grenside  39:15

I wasn’t able to write a script. I think as I mentioned, I think it’s because working on film and television are very collaborative. And unless you’re, you know, Steven Spielberg or somebody, you know, or in, in television, one of the great show runners, you don’t get your way you have to compromise all the time.

That’s a good thing. But it’s also, you know, after a while you go well, actually, I want to do it myself. And you the only way to do something yourself is write a book. You know.

Emma Dhesi  39:48

it’s just get on and do it. So…

Mark Grenside  39:51

you know what else to blame?

Emma Dhesi  39:56

So you’ve mentioned that it’s part of a series so first, one came out this year, and I think you are currently working on number two?

Mark Grenside  40:04

Not enough. But I have, yes, I’ve put myself, you know, in a very difficult position because I put the first three chapters of the next book in the last book. And now I’m really stuck. I’ve got to do it. 

Emma Dhesi  40:18

So what’s the course?

Mark Grenside  40:19

I sorted, I know what I know, what the what the extents of the extensive crime is within the film industry. And I know what the backstory crime is. So I’ve got that in place, on

Emma Dhesi  40:38

And it is the same characters? 

Mark Grenside  40:40

Two the same characters, the man and the woman return. Although there are some characters who do survive and follow that I would love to bring back and I’m sure I will. And the locations are set, I have a thing about location. So the first book was Los Angeles, London, just that side, interlocken and the Philippines. And this book is going to be the Aleutian Islands, which have like a string of pearls going across to Russia, and from Canada, or Alaska. So the Aleutian Islands, San Francisco, countryside in France and Malta.

Emma Dhesi  41:31

Lovely weather that fits nicely with all the traveling that you’ve done bringing in all those places you’ve been to. Yeah. It’s called the bastion, is that right? Yeah. And do we have an expected date for that release yet? Or are you playing about it? 

Mark Grenside  41:47

No, I’ve been a bit busy at work recently. So I would like to deliver it sometime next year. 

Emma Dhesi  41:54

Fantastic. 

Mark Grenside  41:56

Probably probably probably, under the summer next year, it just depends when I can, you know, deflect from from my other interests. 

Emma Dhesi  42:06

And do you envisage it being an ongoing series? 

Mark Grenside  42:09

Yeah. It’s written as a franchise.

Emma Dhesi  42:12

Lovely.

Mark Grenside  42:12

Those two characters will keep on coming back. And they will keep on getting drawn into something that happened. On the movie, they were making financing writing, asked to help on whatever, hmm. And so the, in a similar way to two more like, I’m not too much star, but more like, Francis, that there was always something about horse racing sort of in the background.

But they weren’t about horse racing all the time. Do you know what I mean? So it’s the same thing here? Yeah, you get an insight into movies. And hopefully, you know, because I’ve used some real people from movies in the book, of being nice enough to say, Fine. So when you’re reading it, it should be very difficult to split reality from fiction.

Because when you’re reading about the Cannes Film Festival, which I’ve done, more times, you want to shake a stick out? You know, a lot of that is real, because that’s what it’s like. So when you read it, you go, did that happen that Film Festival, or not? Because that person’s real. And that movie was real. But I’m not sure about that bit. And that’s, hopefully the fun of the book. 

Emma Dhesi  43:34

So that glass interesting. So I got two follow up questions to that. One is, as you’ve written this, you know, it’s a series you always knew you wanted it to be optioned and to be a franchise. So I’m guessing you had at least the two main characters in mind who might play those parts when you were writing it. And I wondered if you are able to share that with us?

Mark Grenside  43:57

I didn’t i didn’t i didn’t except, you know, if you want to be very cynical about writing, and you want to get something made, you have to accept what target groups you’re you’re writing to. So the male protagonist is probably in his early 40s. The woman is probably in her mid 30s.

So that was it optimized in my mind as the characters now I didn’t. I think if touchwood it ever gets turned into a TV series. Books are impossible to do as movies. I’ve done a few and it’s very difficult. But if it’s done as a 10 hour series, I’m certain that we will probably have a shortlist of cast and the guy who writes the screenplay, I will skew what I’ve written towards a specific x. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that happens.

But I didn’t know I didn’t write it with anybody in mind. I mean, you know, sometimes people do. I mean, like, there’s a great story isn’t there about twins, which that was an idea by a guy from the male who flew to Hollywood. And so I’ve got moving back twins, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito. And he sold it on that they hadn’t even asked them yet. Right. However, that doesn’t happen very often.

Emma Dhesi  45:35

That’s brilliant. And but my I guess my, my second follow up question is, 

Mark Grenside  45:40

Yes?

Emma Dhesi  45:40

You’ve mentioned that you taught you you mentioned real people, real movies, real things have gone on. Is there? Did you have to be careful about what you said about who and what you used?

Because I know that’s something a lot of people worry about is this kind of idea of libel and being sued about something and using real people in their stories. But does that something…. 

Mark Grenside  46:02

I can’t say who it is because it’ll give away? Some of them MacGuffin. But some of the references to real people actually come from books that they wrote about themselves. You see what I mean? Since I know reading them in a situation, yeah, yeah. Movies are different, because you can refer and relate to movies. And, you know, there’s a line they’re talking about.

The protagonists, I think they’re in bed probably at the time, but they’re talking about or she says, All movies are the same to me. And then he says, well, there’s only five stories anyway, which is quite well known. And she said, Yeah, but they all sound the same to me. And he said, Do you know what the most popular line in a movie is?

And she goes, you know, that’s all folks. There’s no, and there’s that. And it’s actually try and get some rest? It is Yeah. Yeah. I love it.

Emma Dhesi  47:07

Get some rest? Yeah. Well, I’m really looking for… I will be looking out for it now. Yes. Well, I think they sound fascinating. I am someone who has sort of has an interest in Hollywood and loves to follow all that kind of thing and the background and how it all works. I’m really looking forward to reading them. And I can think of a few people who will be getting that as a Christmas present this year. So that’s cool. 

Mark Grenside  47:32

Well, that’s very kind. Thank you. I hope they enjoy it. Enjoy, and thank you for your time.

Emma Dhesi  47:38

Not a problem. Now, before you go off. Tell us where can listeners find out more about you and your books? 

Mark Grenside  47:44

Ah, well, I have a website, www.mngrenside.com And the book is actually under MN Greenside Mark. And it’s available on Amazon and shops and goodness knows what else. The website has details about me personally. And it has details about my life and things that interest me.

There’s some fairly amusing photographs from various from skydiving to racing cars to I don’t know all sorts of stuff. My wife, platinum. She’s braver than I am. I spent my life jumping out of planes following her. But yeah, I do like adventure. I love travel. I love cooking cars, as you mentioned, cars in the 50s 60s, and 70s. And good friends.

Emma Dhesi  48:44

Nice, all the important things, important things. Well, that’s lovely. Thank you so much for your time today. I’ve really enjoyed listening to you and your stories. Thank you. 

Mark Grenside  48:53

Well, you’re very welcome. And you’re welcome. Anytime. Thank you very much.

Emma Dhesi  48:58

Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Mark brand side. And I hope you’ve been inspired to read the book. I loved listening to his anecdotes about Hollywood and the movie business, and how things work behind the scenes. But in terms of writing, my biggest takeaway from what he said today was that character is action.

And I love the example he gave with Jack Nicholson in Chinatown, and how it’s what a character does their mannerisms, how they respond to a situation, physically, not necessarily with words. But when we get that from the character of then we’re really seeing below the surface, we’re seeing the depths of the character, and what’s going on behind the eyes behind the words behind the voice.

So I really love that that was my biggest takeaway from my conversation with Mark certainly in terms of writing fiction. What was your biggest takeaway? What has he managed to convey to you that’s really resonated with you? and that you’ll take forward in your own writing life. Hit the comments below and let me know.

Alright, Take care for now and I will see you again next time. Bye

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Emma Dhesi

Emma writes women’s fiction. She began writing seriously while a stay at home mum with 3 pre-school children.

By changing her mindset, being consistent and developing confidence, Emma has gone from having a collection of handwritten notes to a fully written, edited and published novel.

Having experienced first-hand how writing changes lives, Emma now helps beginner writers find the time and confidence to write their first novel.