Interview with Steve Adams

Steve Adams is a writer and playwright and has been widely published.

He’s won a Pushcart Prize and Glimmer Train’s Short Story Award for New Writers, been listed for a “Notable Essay” in Best American Essays.

He has also featured in a number of anthologies. 

Steve has been a guest artist at the University of Texas, and his plays have been produced in New York City. He’s a writing coach and freelance editor in Memphis. 

His first novel, Stay with Me a Little Longer, will be published by the University of Wisconsin Press in Fall/Winter 2022.

Emma Dhesi:

Well, Steve, thank you so, so much for joining me today.

Steve Adams:

Nice to be here. Thank you.

Emma Dhesi:

So I wonder if you wouldn’t mind just telling us a little bit about how you got started in writing and what brought you to where you are today?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, be glad to it is because it’s such a long story for me, it’s very circuitous. How do you the truncated version, but basically I was I was going to, in a University of Texas in Austin, and I was one of these people who was lost, didn’t know what they were going to do.

Like, I think a lot of artists are various points, right? But I stumbled into the theater program there. And I studied acting for two years, I wasn’t a very good actor. And they kicked me out after two years, but it was Think, think I’m just really glad they did.

That’s one of the best things that happened to me, because I wasn’t early good. And I didn’t want to be trying to do that. And I stumbled into a portrait clerk course by a guy named Albert Goldbarth, who is a big, actually American poet.

But he was he was younger than he was, you know, just teaching and it was like, lights went out on my head, and I Oh, these are my people.

This is what I’m supposed to do. And so what happened then is after I got the poetry going, and I just I had been so under exposed to it, and it just, again, like lights gone off my head.

And I went back circle back through the theater program, because that’s where I was getting my degree.

And I took up playwriting and that was exciting and fun and suddenly I was getting attention which I needed and and at that point, I and here’s where again, it’s it is long, but I moved to New York I’ll try to keep this short moved to New York and enjoyed you had the wild time New York writing plays getting a little productions here and there. Never thought I would write probes.

I never thought I would write prose at all. And and but then I decided I should write screenplays. I love New York, I went to Los Angeles thinking oh, I’m gonna be a famous screenwriter.

And I wrote a stack of bad screenplays and and I just was not natural at that. I have friends who love it there. But I it wasn’t my city didn’t feel right in that world of screenwriting. didn’t feel right.

And, and so I tried to get philosophical and told myself, Well, it’s time for me to give up writing and be practical and, you know, get a real job and do the normal things. And it didn’t work for me.

After about two months, I started going kind of crazy. It’s like, I need to write something. So I started writing prose for the first time. And, and at that point, I think earlier, I didn’t have the endurance for it. But at this point, I was just so hungry to ride and it just, I felt like a horse just running through a field. And so that’s where I started writing prose.

And, again, I go, Oh, this is it. You know, why did it take me so long, but this is what I want to do. And so from that point on, I was mostly wrote short pieces. And I actually got some published immediately. And I think it’s because I’d had all the playwriting training and all the other stuff. And so I wasn’t totally off, you know, I had a lot of foundation for what I was doing.

But and then that I started to get my MFA. And I went to New York, and it got me MFA and live, there’s some more and, and that’s, that kept going on and, and the thing with coaching, how this came around, was, like, the American economy kind of collapsed in 2008.

And I lost my wonderful new york day job, I love day jobs, you know, you punch a clock, and then you ride on your own, you know, you have keep the lights on, and you’re not dependent on. Although now I have this is my, it’s not a day job. I actually really loved the coaching.

But what I did is I lost the day job, so I had to find a new way.

And I always just love talking about process and writing with people. It’s just what I do. I mean, I’ll chase them down that street too, so we can talk about it. And and so I had friends suggest I tried coaching, I don’t even know people did this.

And so I started up and slowly developed, you know, people who wanted to work with me over time. And, and that’s all I do, I coach. You know, either I do what I call developmental editing for generally larger projects. Sometimes short, short work, too, but the big projects are big and…

Emma Dhesi:

I wonder if I could just take you back a step. Because I was really interested in what you said about, you know, going from screenwriting, to sort of prose writing, and you said you didn’t think you had the endurance for it. Yeah.

And it’s so interesting that you say that because I Think of writing a full length play or writing a full length script. Equally is has a level of endurance, that’s just as tough.

But did you find what did you sort of find the main difference there? And when you met when you talk about endurance, is it? Because with the with the script, it’s dialogue? Mostly? Or was it just because it was a new a new form for you?

Steve Adams:

Right? Well, I think actually, that I mean, most of my plays out, I was MIT that that were successful, they were 1x, I was still doing short form stuff. Because that was my natural, I could just do that I didn’t have to think about it a whole lot, you know, but every time I tried to stretch out into full length, it was it was I couldn’t figure out how to do it really.

And I think me writing you know, what I’m calling bad. A number of bad screenplays kind of built up my muscle to think like you say, for more of that endurance, built it up. And, and then when I went into the pros, I was I had more endurance just from from doing that.

And I was thinking about long form structure, even if I was had not understood it, that’s as well. But for me, the thing was, is I loved language. And like, when I’d write a play, I would set up a monologue that record do, you know, interesting, or beautiful language, because you have to really earn it.

But I found that when I with prose, I’m just sitting there and I could just drop into the world at this point my life and, and just feel free without the cookbook, because screenplays are very constricted. And you don’t have control over content a lot.

You know, it’s about concept and structure and all of that, but, but your language will very likely get lost, you can’t, you know, so. So that’s where I frequent use language. So I could just run Yes, I felt like the horse running across the field, you know, so, so that, you know, so that that, to me, is the difference.

It’s like, and you get to do it all, you get to do it all with pros, you’re the director, you’re the actor, you’re everything, you know, and that’s the challenge to, but that’s, I prefer that I prefer getting to do everything then having to box myself in. I mean, it’s a brilliant screenwriters who are so good at this, but I’m not it’s not the right film for me, so, you know…

Emma Dhesi:

There’s, there’s a kind of natural fit between the two, I think, isn’t there, you do hear of a lot of fiction writers who do study screenwriting, because they want to improve that structure that form the kind of patterns of storytelling that I think screenwriting teaches so well, that perhaps fiction and maybe particularly literary fiction doesn’t teach quite so well.

And thinking of the book, you know, save the cat writes a book, which is taken from their Blake Schneider script writing book, so make it so do you feel that you’re actually doing that screen writing first give you a really good education and grounding and structure and flow before you’re able to kind of then expand on the beautiful prose if you like.

Steve Adams:

Right, right. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s totally requisite long form, it’s long form, whether it’s long form play or screenplay.

They’re, they’re big projects are novel. And I really think mostly I just built up my muscle because my screenplays really did work like they’re supposed to, but it was me struggling through that. And then what’s writing prose?

I totally turned around. And that’s when I studied screenplays better and and like like Robert McKee story was one book I read to go oh my god this is this is this tells me how to build this long architectural thing that anomalous and when I put any movies are so great too because again story if you get structured out and you’re writing a long form well then you can you can make it work and if your structure sound and so but but when I’m working with clients because it’s so easy to see a movie and talk about the structure of it, which is kind of what I teach with novel right but but as I say, like I have this whole PowerPoint chart I did for the Godfather breaking down the act structure so they can see where these turning points are.

And so but I had to study that and and get that in because i agree i mean i am a quote unquote literary writer although i like it i think mine crosses over you know, you know, that’s commercial too but but I’m based in language and literary and and it is a it often is a something lacking and literary fiction with the structure isn’t as sound as it could be.

So I recommend people like read, you know, read mystery novels and see see movies and, and I use those as examples to show how the how the story moves, so absolutely, it’s great. It’s good, really good to study that.

Emma Dhesi:

So you mentioned there that you’re, you know, you write a lot of your art, you’re right on the more literary side, and I know that you write a lot of personal essays and creative nonfiction.

And I wonder, what sort of topics Do you find yourself drawn to? Do you like to, you know, maybe just the phase of life that you’re in that something around that is appealing? Or do you like to write about the bigger subjects politics or the environment?

What What, what appeals to you, when you’re writing a piece of memoir or creative nonfiction?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, what I’m drawn to more, I funnier, as this newsletter, and I was just writing about this money is not the, it’s just what I think you have to find as a writer.

What draws you, you know, what you fall in love with what calls you, that’s where you have to go, because that’s where your, your your genius is, your art is there and not find it too much trying to, you know, twist it into something that it doesn’t want to be and then trust that the material will do what it’s supposed to do.

So along those lines, I mean, like, I mean, the environment up, my goodness, what, you know, but how do you write a story that that does that when you write personal stories, it’s really difficult.

So I write, I mean, I’m drawn to things that haunt me, or call out to me, basically. And, you know, a lot of that is I think a lot of memoir takes time and time in your life.

Because you’re, you’re haunted by something in your past, or you can’t stop thinking about or you start thinking about it seems really interesting, that thing that happened to me 20 years ago, you know, and you start writing it out thinking about it, and, and you realize there’s a story now that’s a secret to is to, you know, this it sounds obvious, but it’s not like where is there a real story, you know, is there a story there or not like, okay, I want this one big thing is pushcart prize over here.

It’s, it’s really big for a memoir. And, and it was about my relationship with this guy in New York City for eight years.

And, and during that time, I go, Well, this is I was like, in the New York story, I knew I was, you know, and so when it when it ended, I mean, the thing is, is I’m, I’m straight, he’s gay, he was my Shiatsu person, because of a bad injury, he, you know, kept me moving through.

And so this relationship happened over eight years. And then he he got pancreatic cancer and died. And, and so it’s all around all those those feelings. And once that, in the middle of it, I go, I’m and it’s stories, you know, this is a story.

And then when he died, I knew Oh, I have to write about this. And it doesn’t mean it has to be good.

Even I just because I don’t approach these things, thinking I’m gonna write the fabulous story. I just, there’s something I want to explore or try to understand better, or give.

Emma Dhesi:

Let me ask you that. Because that’s a really interesting point that you brought up.

And I have a lot of memoirs in my my audience. And I think a really useful question for them would be how do you know when something has happened in your life?

How do you know that it makes a good story? Or can you find the good? Can you unearth a good story from anything that happens? It’s just about knowing how to how to dig it out?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, and those, I would say, help me with that. So to me, those are two separate questions. Okay. But the first one, like I said, we’re How do you know you have a story.

And again, I approached him, and believe me, I signed all high and mighty, and that nobody wants to get published more than me.

And that’s just the fact you know, but when I’m writing, I try to not worry about that, and go deep into the process of creation, because that’s really where the joy and all this is, this stuff is just a pretty pretty illusion, you know, and hopefully it happens. Yeah, I want an audience to we need to connect. But, um, so so.

But in this, this is, well, I’ll just say it again, if I’m haunted by something, you know, something had happened when I was 17. You know, or 19. If that story for me and against part of it, just maybe the way my mind works, but I feel there’s a shape of something there.

And you know, like some Lino loss or something interesting or something meaningful beyond just Oh, that’s a good story. Because that’s not enough. It’s got to have that meaningful thing going on. So that allows you to go deep into like, I have a PhD.

I just can’t talk about it yet. But I have a full like memoir stating that I need to work on that it’s halfway done. But but the wild thing about this one for me was was because they knew there’s a period of life.

I went through this whole process, and I’ve knew at some point, I would need to look at it in our way because there’s something happened and, and so, so so I’ve gone into exploring by writing it.

It’s been really interesting and that it’s changed my whole perspective on what happened that, like, I had a narrative in my mind before I wrote it, of what this whole story was.

And I mean, it’s still the same thing. But I’ve learned like, wow, this is, you know, I was doing better than I realized this is Wilder story than I realized, you know, and have more respect for what I went through.

So that’s a real interesting side thing about this. But But yeah, I mean, I guess I look for, if something has meaning, if it’s loaded, if it’s rich, if it draws my attention, that’s kind of all I need to know.

And I go in, and sometimes it just feels like what’s going to be a short pace? Or sometimes it feels like it’s gonna be a long piece. Okay. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi:

Okay, so that’s, I love that. So that’s it. That’s great tip for our, for our listeners that if they are writing a memoir, it’s about digging down into the, because I do find a lot of men, a lot of new writers are very, because they’re excited.

Yeah, focus very much on the when I publish this book when I get an agent, but actually, it’s cool, putting a pause on that, and coming back and write into the process and thinking about that moment that you want to write about.

And taking your time, it sounds like as well just to really on air, if they really dig down into it, and what’s going on, underneath the surface of that event or that moment in your life. Sounds like sort of what you’re saying there just to move slow down.

Steve Adams:

It really it’s so funny as it’s like, that’s the thing, I tell people, and I think it’s and there’s an irony, so if I can make my mind remember to come back to it. To me, the irony of this is you’re going to write most of the time, the best most likely to quote unquote, succeed story.

If you’re going deep down and slowing down, and not trying to focus on Hey, I’m gonna get the edge and I’m gonna do this, you know, and yet, that’s the sort of thing that gets it into us. But I think at that moment, you have to separate those two things.

You have to you have to let that whatever, put that on the shelf, and, and go into the process and an earth thing, because there will be there things you will find if you slow down exactly the words I have to slow down.

I mean, yeah, and you go into the deep, you make discoveries and you will find the true story down there. Or, or open up the story you’re trying to write much better by by slowing down. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi:

So you’ve mentioned the coaching that you do, and the mentoring that you do. Tell me about some of the projects, the type of project that you like to work on and what it is that you enjoy about coaching students? And do you work with new writers or more established writers or a mix?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, and again, just anything I forgot. Bring me back. So I forget. But I work with beginners. And I work I have people who are very successfully published, like how did they come into my life? I don’t know.

But but they are, you know, and I this whole mix and it’s always one on one. So it that adapts to, to who they are and who I am and we try to find that that rhythm so I’m a good dance partner basically in helping them through this, you know, and I’m sorry, I lost my thread, but you Oh, okay.

Emma Dhesi:

What do you enjoy about coaching? What what’s one of the sort of elements that really gives you that kick and makes you keep coming back?

Steve Adams: 18:40

Yeah, it’s and again, it’s always vary depending on who I’m working with. But I mean, obviously, it’s so thrilling when somebody has breakthroughs.

And they discover Well, this is you know, this is hard but it’s it’s really rewarding and they get excited about their material and they drop into that and and

I love that and of course when someone gets something published that’s a whole other level but but really it’s about this because for me this is it’s very, it’s kind of a spiritual, it is a kind of it is a spiritual discipline, just like all arts are including martial arts,

I think, and it I believe it helps you be more whole and complete in this world to have something like this.

I don’t know what people do who don’t have this. So if I can help somebody develop their, their this discipline, so that this is a part of their lives and a sanctuary for their soul, if I can say something really over the top, but I think it is because it’s that for me, you know, and if they have that, again, this is where that weird irony is, then they’re going to write anyway, because it’s not so important to have the big success.

And yet, them writing like that all very often is what will bring them the best product for lack of a better word that have the best chance of success so you know that’s why again to slow down and trust this stuff and and then

I mean again nobody likes to get published more than I do they like to I’d like to you know to split parts of my brain you know so I’d have to keep the other one quiet while I’m writing you know so…

Emma Dhesi:

Well yes I think that’s a really really valid point an important point to make I think for all writers probably not just beginners but that balancing the brain or keeping part of your brain hushed for a while that and not even just the the want to publish versus you know writing but the writer brain and the editor brain which has two such different skills and it’s something

I have to remind myself to do when I’m first drafting is switch off that editor and just let whatever comes out come out so that you’ve just got something there that you can go back and grapple with and work with and improve or cut or whatever it needs to happen managing those two halves of our brains I think is really really important.

Did you find that the same for you Do you have a way of of managing that of separating those two outs?

Interview with Steve Adams

Steve Adams:

That’s something and I may want to make it even more complicated but this is something I think

I this is a part of my my thing I do with people because that is one thing and believe me this might make some newer writers and give them a little bit of comfort but people who are successful have those voices too they have they don’t know that they’re getting in their own way sometimes that’s why they hire me

Everything was fine they wouldn’t even be looking me up but they you know they’re stuck so they’re they’re needing some help and and a lot of those issues just met they don’t I think they get easier to handle but they don’t go away entirely you know.

But for me well i mean i get that inner editor thing I had a girlfriend in New York who’s getting a PhD and she’s brilliant but she’d never heard this comp idea of the inner editor and you know writers talk about this and she was stuck trying to write this thing was so frustrated and I told her oh that’s an inner editor problem and you know unexplained that that it’s differently it’s a different voice for her and

I have a background that makes me a lot better at this so I was very conscious of it my inner editor is smaller didn’t get the way a whole lot we’ve we’ve developed a dialogue and communication over time so that we understand usually what’s going on and but but my I visualized him when

I was starting out writing poetry and he was getting in the way sometimes. And I saw him as a little man who sat on the end of my pan and lifted it off the page and lifted lifted the pen off the page right?

And and so you can’t write when he’s sitting on the back end lifting the pen off the page and I literally This is theater helps you to get imagined and have an imagination like this. So I’d say okay, you know, I tell him says you see what you’re doing I know you want me to write, but you’re lifting the pen off the page.

You don’t need to be here now you’re actually stopping me from producing so go to the pub or go to the coffee shop.

And and I won’t need you later I will need your Kenai later. I mean, I compliment them on the way out right? And, and this this one was not very primitive, right?

So and he got it and so and when I’d get stuck and I’d realize oh I’m in that state of mind my inner editors suddenly taking over and I’d look I mean it’s all visual for me.

I look over and they’re heed me and they go oh, you don’t need to be here now you need to go away from it.

I will lead you later. Thank you. And and so that was me but my girlfriend’s was she’s really imagined and hurt she was she needed to work through levels of this stuff.

And and she but she pictured her as Tammy pictured her inner editor as like, a tooth pink, two foot naked guy named George, who would yell at her and tell her you’re horrible you staying here? Do you don’t know what you’re doing? How dare you think you can write this.

And that’s, that was the voice. And the thing about these voices, which is kind of my thing about all this is they come through our own head. And they sound like us. So we think this is the truth, and they take over our emotions.

But if you’re like me, you have a lot of voices in your head that do different things. They’re all just voices. So if I think identify them says oh, that’s that voice. That’s that, you know, it might be you maybe your mom told you you weren’t any good or a teacher or whatever these these layers of resistance that are built in and that takeover when we’re vulnerable sometimes.

If you identify Oh, that’s just a voice, you know, that stop us from doing all kinds of thing all the time. And that really there’s a whole if you’re again my case, there’s a whole Zoo of voices in your head and say He can pay your you know, that’s a voice that’s just talk it just let him chatter. And I’m going to go back with what I’m supposed to be doing. So where voices, yeah…

Emma Dhesi:

Yeah, no, it’s a great. I don’t quite have the same level of visualization that you do. But certainly I do sort of personify that voice in a way. And it kind of sits on my shoulder.

And I have to acknowledge that this is a different voice. This is not me, it’s a different entity.

And I can park it and say, just like you did, I’ll come back to you. I’m not ignoring you. I know you’re here. But I will come back to you.

And I find it amazing how much if that voice feels acknowledged, and herot it will prove it and let you carry on with the writing that you need to do?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, it’s amazing, really just just becoming aware of it, and then addressing it a little bit however you have you do it. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi:

So do you…. The writers that you work with, you’ve mentioned during you as well as more established?

Do you work solely with literary writers? Or do you work the genre writers or poets? Do you have a preference for the type of work that you work with?

Steve Adams:

I, I really don’t I mean, it’s funny because I started with poetry, but I really don’t work with poetry just because I haven’t written it in so long.

It’s weird, I don’t fully understand it. And I don’t understand how to critique or, or help someone, I can help someone process I get them how to orient their day.

So they’re producing and I can read it and talk about it but but I’m better with because with narrative form, is where it’s, that’s basically it.

I mean, I work with literary writers a lot. But I, like you know, it’s the I mean, the main thing people need, especially when I’m doing like developmental edit, they need someone who can break down their, their manuscript because they’ve got 300 pages, and they have no idea what they’ve got, or what to do, you know, and they’ll say, Please help me.

And it’s hard work, but I go through and so that, therefore, I will tell them, like, I’m not a sci fi, you know, expert, I’m not a thriller expert. But what I can give them is break down the structure and tell them I don’t call myself an expert, but my areas story.

And again, this is more of the development I had it and and I can go through and you know, come up with a roadmap and tell them what they’ve done and how their story is working and where they can go and do things. So that applies across all genres.

Really, you know, unless you do something really experimental. And then you’re, you know, you’re reinventing the wheel. Okay, good luck to you and, you know, I work with you, but…

Emma Dhesi:

Before we started recording you mentioned you found when you moved to doing longer form, pros that there was a few resources that you were really helpful and you thought they were worth mentioning today. I wonder if you’d share those with us?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, because because I mean, there’s so many books out there.

This is one thing I would say is if anyone tells you Oh, I have the way to do it, and this is the way you know, you might want to take a step back well, there’s actually a decent one called story genius, which does exactly that. Which makes me very angry.

But she has one really good idea in the middle of it, but I’m not gonna I’m not gonna go there.

Yeah, I don’t want to again give up too many books. But especially I mean, to me this is a book everyone should read at some point who’s it’s sure you’ve heard of a Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott?

I mean, and she’s such a good writer anyway it’s so fun so that’s when I just say you’ll if you do this it will just help you so much. And I kind of think she is maybe the first big coach out there you know, oh right there we go.

Emma Dhesi:

Yeah, I’m just sharing my coffee I keep it close to me all the time. Yeah. Like a commend

Steve Adams:

Yeah, it’s the one and the other again for me I think some people are more natural at long form than I was I had a really I think it’s one reason I can edit and help people because I had to I had to take it into my intellect I had to get it and so now I’m kind of wonky about it I’ve got

Oh elegant structure i mean i use terms like that now so but but for me, it was shit learning to shift from short form I get I wrote the short stories after I gave up writing and they all like hit their a bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And it’s like I’m a genius.

And then I then I tried to write a novel, and it didn’t work at all. I mean, I ground my way all the way through it. But But somehow through there, I was trying to learn how to do it. It’s different. It’s structurally It looks like a long short story, but it’s not it’s structurally the prep.

And for me, and I already mentioned it is to read Robert, Mickey’s story. And that just gives you Oh, here’s a framework and screenplays are much more rigid in in, you know, if you’re selling them, they want things to happen on page 30. And all this stuff.

We could be a lot more flexible with prose and long form but um, But the good news for me, it gave me some handles I could hold on to and that’s what I needed.

And it’s similar one is called again, if someone is trying if it was like me struggling to learn how to do long form and needed some help.

That was one and then there’s a book by john York. I think he’s a he’s British, it’s called Into the Woods a five act journey into story.

And it’s Yeah, it’s it’s a really good in it’s, it’s, it’s more for prose writers, but he uses movie examples two, and MKII uses movie examples, okay, because it’s so clear to see, see this stuff. And here’s an my feeling about, like Mickey and screenplays are considered three act.

And Shakespeare, of course, and, and York thinks novels are 5x. And my opinion about it is Don’t, don’t sweat that too much.

Because I think that’s kind of different way, like looking at it from a bit of a different angle, you know, maybe there’s a little bit more of a story, but the shape is really, whatever works is going to be fine.

And either can inform this. So those, those are three books that are I always first to recommend, so….

Emma Dhesi:

Fantastic, good recommendations there. Now, you did mention it just a little while ago that you are you have written or you are writing your first novel, and it’s due out next year.

And I’ve sort of I have already asked you, you know about that crossover from writing shorter pieces to the long form, and the differences there, but what can you tell us about the book itself about the story itself, and where the inspiration for it came from?

Steve Adams:

Yeah, um, I think the inspiration for this is, this might be helpful, too, because I’m gonna do something not as well as I would like Karen in a moment.

But it when I lived in New York City was a very, very important place for me, and I came there and I kind of came to myself in a way.

And, and I, it, it, you know, beat me up the first time I had to leave, and then I couldn’t stop thinking about it.

And I came back. And then was there had an incredible time, the second time, because I, you know, I had a real job I could afford, afford it for a while, and then I left to go do screenplays and never get stuck, think of it, and then I moved back.

So I live it three different times for over 16 years. And I think the inspiration may have come from because I used to wander the city a lot.

And when again, the you know, life happens and the economy collapsed, and I lost my job, and you can’t stay there without a job, you’ll end up in a bad place.

And I had to leave and I think but I had like six months to, to before I was had to leave and I think my wandering that city and and and you know this, this longing and loss that I was feeling for losing my mind city was what kind of fed into the ideas for this novel.

And so I have a guy from Texas like me, and he is I gave this this whole other story, there was an original, maybe this is helpful.

The original story I had this got us wanting to ratchet up the sense of loss and longing.

So I put the sky into having an affair. He’s having an affair with a married woman with a child, and they’re all tangled up with each other.

They’ve worked together in an office for years and her husband goes away to Italy to work for, for two months.

It’s an it’s an unfulfilling marriage for her that she loves her child. It’s not an unhappy marriage. It’s just done fulfilling, that can differentiate those two things.

And she, she’s from Italy, she initiates the affair. And he’s been in love with her all this time, anyway. And he’s he almost had to leave and finally managed to keep himself and check this place. And suddenly this thing just happens.

And so they, they for her idea, it thinks that she is just going to be done quickly. But it’s not what happens. They just fall deeply into each other, you know, at that point, and you know, I mean they’re flawed people, but they’re passionate people.

And, and yet she knows better than she’s a practical person, though. And she knows this is some flaky, artsy guy from Texas. I can’t go running off to Mexico with them.

I have this family of a child. And so this is this is this is the the main storyline 1988 New York City, AIDS haunted landscape.

So all that’s going on, and they are have these two months together in this affair. So that’s the main storyline. The there’s a second so I had that.

And I wrote out a draft of that, really? I mean, not maybe but yeah, that’s pretty much and I got some feedback that that I needed more.

Now I’d say it sounds good because I think it’s a feeling Really filled out. But, but what the key for me was was showing it to people thinking about it.

And, and coming to terms with who is this guy, we need more. That’s a lot but still so so what I did is I came up with a childhood for him in a small city and Texas, where his father his his dies when he’s young, and his mother’s an alcoholic. But he has these three very beautiful sisters.

And they’re older than him. And he’s like this tiny, he’s like their pet and their little brother. But he takes on all the man they wrote, I’m big brother, a man of the house. And so that’s the real families these four, and they’re this, this relationship between them.

And what happens is what develops him not only into what we like to say he has a wound there becomes a painter, basically an artist, he doesn’t understand this, even when he’s in this affair with this woman, he’s coming to learn this kind of through this affair.

But also what made him the type of guy who becomes the other man in a relationship like that. So I wind up all this psychological stuff in that understory, and then the overstory.

And so now it goes back and forth. And and you get, Oh, look at that you get this back and forth with these two stories.

So that it probably sounds complicated, and I had to design it over over time.

But if I could say this, and jump into just a head, the beautiful thing, and this is something new riders, I’m always telling them especially like I’m telling older, rather stupid, but new ones is like you don’t and this is a thing of the Bird by Bird idea that, you know, you can do your crappy first draft, it’s not, you don’t have to solve it all.

You don’t solve at all, then you want to solve pieces of it. And then you go and I called revising the magic wand, you get to go back over and then make it better. And you get to go back over and go, Oh, I need more dimension here. And you can add something there.

And that’s how these things get written. Because I have found that people in my MFA program, that there are people who wanted to be a writer their whole lives.

And because they love literature, and didn’t get that these these, what they’re getting when you get a book, that’s beautiful.

You don’t see all the drafts that went into that thing, right? It’s perfect. I got it this but does it come out like this, they think it comes out like that didn’t come out anything like that.

So you got to really get that in your you know, in your head. That’s bad. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi:

It sounds fascinating. And I particularly love the that you’ve twisted, and often we have the story where it’s the woman who’s the other woman. Right? You know that but I love that this in this instance, it’s the man who’s the other man.

Yeah, dynamic, sensitive, playing out from a male perspective. As opposed to the usual sort of woman being the mistress.

Steve Adams:

So that that drew me that really drew me that made me put a lot of energy into this.

And then and the response I’ve got, that’s one of the people really liked that.

And I don’t know if I mentioned she’s also his boss, so I don’t think I mentioned.

Emma Dhesi:

Real shift in power dynamic

Steve Adams:

It is and yet it’s really, it’s so it does all that it plays with that.

And yet, it’s really just two people. It really is about the two of them. They’re kind of, to me, they’re like a little bit like a like, I’m sorry, all my references are American, I’m sorry.

But whether there’s Elsa, and there’s Humphrey Bogart, in the movie, whatever we’re trying to think of, I mean that that movie, Casablanca is, like, you know that Humphrey Bogart illustrates they really belong together, ya know, but you know, and I think we get the feeling that these two really in another world would be together.

Emma Dhesi:

Whoa. And when? When were you? Are you expecting that it will go out? Because it’s, you’ve got a publisher for it, haven’t you?

Steve Adams:

Yes, yes. It’s a it’s actually really, it’s a good big University Press, University of Wisconsin. And it will come out a year from now. Oh, exciting.

So yeah, I am. And luckily, I’ve got a year to now that I’ve written it, and it’s in here for me to try to figure out how to market and all this stuff, which is not what I enjoy, or what I’m natural that I’ve got to just hack my way through and I am so…

Emma Dhesi:

The next level, yeah, the next stage of it all. Well, I have loved chatting with you today. Thank you for your time.

Just before we jump off, though, I wonder, could you let us let listeners know where they can find out more about you and your services and your writing online?

Steve Adams:

Yes, thank you. Um, you could go to my website, which over the next six months, I’ll probably be updating of course, but it’s a www.SteveAdamwriting.com.

And that’s the p ace and yeah, thank you. I’ve eally enjoyed been very fun t lking to you.

Emma Dhesi:

Yes. Thank you. Well, I’ll make sure I mentioned. I’ll put a link to your website in the show notes. And yeah, thank you so much. It’s been lovely.

Steve Adams:

Okay, thank you. All right.

 Emma Dhesi:

Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you find that helpful and inspirational.

Now, don’t forget to come on over to facebook and join my group, turning readers into writers.

It is especially for you if you are a beginner writer who is looking to write their first novel.

If you join the group, you will also find a free cheat sheet.

Called three secret hacks to write with consistency.

So go to Emmadhesi.com/turning readers into writers. Hit join. Can’t wait to see you in there.

All right. Thank you. Bye bye.

If this interview with Steve Adams was useful, you’ll love:

• Navigating and co-writing with Autumn J Birt & Jesper Schmidt – EMMA DHESI
• Healing trauma through narrative with Nadia Colburn – EMMA DHESI
• World building with Fantasy writer Stephanie BwaBwa – EMMA DHESI

Emma Dhesi

Emma writes women’s fiction. She began writing seriously while a stay at home mum with 3 pre-school children.

By changing her mindset, being consistent and developing confidence, Emma has gone from having a collection of handwritten notes to a fully written, edited and published novel.

Having experienced first-hand how writing changes lives, Emma now helps beginner writers find the time and confidence to write their first novel.