Interview with Thomas Emson

Emma Dhesi  00:00

Hello, I’m Emma Dhesi and welcome to another episode of turning readers into writers. If you’re brand new here, welcome. And here’s what you need to know. This is a community that believes you are never too old to write your first novel, no matter what you’ve been up to until now, if you’re ready to write your book, I’m ready to help you reach the end, I focus on helping you find the time and confidence to begin your writing journey, as well as the craft and skills you need to finish the book.

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A former journalist Thomas Emson has been involved in writing and publishing for nearly 30 years. He worked for local and national newspapers during his career, but 12 years ago took a chance he gave up work and focused on fiction. Since 2008. He has had eight horror novels published by snow books, one of Britain’s leading independent presses, his novels have received widespread praise.

Publishers Weekly said that in Scarlet, Emson fed fresh blood to the vampire genre in this visceral hybrid of plague, panic and the paranormal, which launches a series worth watching,the same magazine set of pariah with discipline to dexterity, amps and volts among three time periods, while presiding over a sizeable and dissimilar cast. All of them integral and none underplayed. Emson has also self published the acclaimed how to write a novel in six months.

Based on the method he used to write two books a year when he was contracted to snore books. So let’s chat to Thomas today about his novels about his horror novels, and how you do write a novel in six months. So let’s find out more about the method he used. Well, Thomas, thank you so so much for joining me today. I’m thrilled to have you on the show. 

Thomas Emson  03:19

Oh, thank you very much for inviting me. It’s, it’s lovely to be here.

Emma Dhesi  03:23

Now, I mentioned in the introduction that you were a journalist by trade. So what attracted you to that particular field of writing in the first place? 

Thomas Emson  03:33

Well, I don’t always so many years ago, I started when I was 21, which is more than 30 years ago now. And I think it was just always something I wanted to do. I had to I’ve been doing a lot of writing as, as a youngster, I used to create little comic books when I was young, mostly football ones and sport ones. So it was it was I think that kind of writing was always something I wanted to do.

And another time I was thinking, Well, I suppose I was thinking how to get into writing and journalism seemed quite sort of an normal and thing to do so. So yeah, so I started on weekly newspapers and moved on to the regional daily papers work mostly on the production side afterwards because one thing about reporting is that you sort of you have to you you deal a lot you have to deal a lot with with sort of writing stories but you know, people but I was more interested in instead of in the words themselves instead of handling other people’s words, really.

So it was going on to do a lot of editing and writing headlines and you know, trimming tightening other people’s work, which really, really helps you with your own writing, because you you can by looking at other people’s work and sort of working on… that copy, you can see then what needs doing to your own copy. So, you know, I thought that certainly did help. And yeah, I spent many years doing that till about 14 years ago when I sort of gave that up full time to focus on writing.

Emma Dhesi  05:29

And so it sounds like I was because I was gonna ask you, what’s one of the things that journalism taught you most about writing generally, but it’s feels that you’ve sort of answered that a bit, it’s looking at…

Thomas Emson  05:40

Yeah, that there are other things as well, you know, it teaches you to be tight, it teaches you to get to the point, okay, which is really important that you get to the point of a story. It teaches you not to waffle, because if you if you’re if you’re if you, if you was a reporter would send a story that waffles on it, you’d get it slashed a bit, you know, by a sub editor. So it teaches you to be to be tight and concise, to get to the point.

It teaches you to write simply, that what you know, which is very important, you know, because the point of writing is communication. If you don’t communicate and get your story across, then you know, you’ve you’ve failed, basically. So it does a lot of things that it teaches you a lot of things and a lot of things it taught me. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  06:32

I like that point that you’ve made about it teaching you to get to the point and being concise. If you’re like, I was talking to somebody recently about short stories, and I, I have a fear of writing short stories, then you have to be concise, you have to get to the point, you have to choose your words carefully.

Whereas a novel writing like that longer form gives you more space to walk with a bit and take your ticket, take more of a scenic route, perhaps with the story then then journalism or a short story might alone.

Thomas Emson  07:04

I think novels as well, you know, I think you should get to the point with novels, because yes, you can spend more time you can spend more time on character on plot, but if what you’re writing is not relevant to what to the plot itself, then you know, it, it shouldn’t be in there. So that that’s my view anyway.

And, you know, journalism again, did that to me, you know, that taught me that? You know, if it’s not relevant, cut it out, you know? So, so yeah, I mean, I understand what you’re saying. And of course, you do have a little bit more space in a novel.

Sure. But I think it applies. I think there’s a great, there’s a guy I don’t know, who said it’s not me, but it’s a little thing that those you know, know the chase and cut to it.

Emma Dhesi  07:55

Oh, I heard that before. I know the chase…

Thomas Emson  07:58

It’s not mine. It’s not mine. I read it somewhere. So yeah, know the chase and cut to it. And that’s, that’s good. That’s a great way of, you know, sort of, if you apply that to your stories, you know….

Emma Dhesi  08:08

I like that. Now, whilst you were doing the, your journalism whilst you were having that career, where you also writing fiction on the side, and what made you decide to make that transition into into fiction, rather than not? 

Thomas Emson  08:24

Yeah, Yes, I was. I mean, I started, you know, as I said, when I was a kid, I was sort of writing little stories or comic books and things. And I really, I really did want to write, but it was kind of, you know, you kind of didn’t know how to go about it, and where to send the for what to do. I started as a student, I was student of writing place and things like this, and trying to write place and trying to write little stories.

Try and write horror, at that time as well. But you know, it so I was always always writing really, and but yes, as I was when I was a journalist, I was writing and sort of, you know, published initially then as well. So definitely, it’s just been something I’ve always done, to be honest.

Emma Dhesi  09:18

So a question I get a lot from people are one of the things that my audience tell me that they struggle with the most is finding that time to write their fiction in and around their day job, their family, all the other things that go on. I’m pretty sure as a journalist, your hours were fairly erratic, you went where the story was, you had to stay if there was a deadline, that kind of thing. So how did you manage that? That that sort of practical element of doing the pay job but then making time for the writing that you loved, the passion? 

Thomas Emson  09:50

I, when, when I was sort of properly starting to write I would I tended My my day job, the journalism was not a day job, I, it was more of an evening job. So I didn’t start till the afternoon. And, and finished later. So I would write in the morning when I was at home. Also, I worked in Newcastle for a while on a on the journal newspaper up there, and I was working there from 6pm till 2am in the morning, very late, shift the production shift. So I would then get home and I would write until about five or 6am. And then I hope go to sleep. So, so you know, you kind of you try and fit it in and find the time.

And if you even if you even have half an hour, you know, you, I’m sure people could find half an hour in their day to do something. But I think I think we probably going to talk about this later on sort of how to sort of be attempt to be more productive and hit goals and things. But definitely, you know, people can you can find the time you you know, in your lunch break. You know, if you really want to do it, you’ll you’ll find the time to do it, I think

Write a novel in 6 months with Thomas Emson

Emma Dhesi  11:15

Yeah, yeah, it sounds it’s nice to hear you sort of say that because you were your working hours weren’t the traditional 9 to 5. And I think that’s encouraging for other people who maybe do shift work could do those unusual hours. That again, it’s just about adjusting your time to fit your needs. And you can do before or after, or even as you say, you know, find that 20, 25 minutes in your lunch hour to… absolutely, something done.

Now, I’m going to change tack just a little bit because you you write horror stories. And I wonder what it is that you love about that particular genre?

Thomas Emson  11:54

Well, I think I think that harks back to childhood as well. You know, we all love being scared, don’t we, you know, in the safety of our own homes. And I think that’s where horror comes from i think it’s it’s it’s allowing us to feel that terror but in a safe kind of environment. I’ve always loved horror. When I was when I was young. I was reading Stephen King, James Herbert’s, Clive Barker, I love you know, also liked horror films a lot.

My, my, my books are quite visual and move quite quickly. So you know, the film influence comes in there. So yeah, I just always loved it really and and it seemed to me the most natural thing to write so so I did write horror I I’m sort of the I that I like thrillers and mysteries as well, which is probably all wrapped up in horror, really. So so you know that there has been some writing in those genres, too.

But yeah, horror, horror is, you know, horror is kind of the the genre I enjoy, I enjoy writing is kind of fun. And I think it sort of just helps you get things out, really, you know, the sort of things that go on in your head. So I think, I think is very helpful in that regard. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  13:23

So do you think it takes a particular type of brain perhaps that kind of plugs into that darker side of our imagination? And… 

Thomas Emson  13:34

I think we all have, you know, horror, horror, you know, if we’re talking about it in a series where I think, you know, we all have, we all have sort of, you know, moments, darker moments, and, and I think that, that, expressing those feelings, expressing those emotions are important. You don’t want to bottle them up. So I think writing generally does help in that regard.

And particularly a horror, I think, you know, me Stephen King writes horror, based on his, what he calls the 10 bears, which are his greatest fears, you know, and I do the same I, you know, I think we all horror writers, you know, whatever level we’re at, or whatever success we’ve had, I think, I think it all comes from there from our own fears. And, you know, I do find myself sort of writing about, you know, my fears, so, and I think they can help deal with these things.

And I think it’s very therapeutic. Really.

Emma Dhesi  14:38

Yeah, definitely. I I agree with that. I write in a very different genre. I write women’s contemporary fiction. And, and I’ve noticed I was talking to someone the other day, and I realized I’d no longer journal as much as I did, because a lot of banks and things are going on in the back of my brain, come out in those drafts. Yeah.

Be quite interesting to observe that you Now you’ve mentioned some of the kind of classic horror novelists that we all know like Stephen King, but I wonder if you’ve come across any newer writers and in the genre that you think it might be worth our listeners checking out?

Thomas Emson  15:14

Well, you know, I stick I stick with the with the with the old school of horror, really. I mean, it’s kind of you know, I still I I like, I like Stephen King. I like James Herbert’s, Jack Ketchum, I like his American author. I like him. There’s, you know, the horror is kind of, it’s been, it is Niche. It’s very, it’s a very niche genre. And there’s a lot I think, of, sort of small independent publishers publishing horror these days.

And if you, you know, if you’re looking for it, there’s there’s a lot out there. But yeah, I stick to the kind of the, the old sort of the old school horror, really, that’s, that’s what I like, that’s what I enjoy. I really like Clive Barker. Clive Barker, I think is incredible. Not just as a horror author, but as a, as a creative generally, is somebody with a, you know, with an incredible imagination. So, yeah, that’s, that’s where I, that’s where I go, I’m afraid.

So I can’t read I can’t make any recommendations, I fear. Unless you get all go back to the, you know, to start with Clive Barker, again, to start with Stephen King, you know, people who haven’t read the early books, certainly, you know, she go back to them, you know, Okay, great, great.

Emma Dhesi  16:41

Well, I’ll link to those in the show notes. So people can go and check them out for themselves, you. Now, one of the reasons I was very keen to chat to you is I’m always looking to be more productive in my writing. And you have written a book called How to write a novel in six months.

And you’ve said that this is the method that you used when you were writing two books a year. So as I got to talk to the sky, then must find out what the what the method is. So I wonder if you wouldn’t mind sort of talking us through the basics of this method. And so that we so that listeners can get a feel for it before they go and read the book. 

Thomas Emson  17:20

Sure. Yeah. Well, it was the book came out of it was a case of needs must, really the whole thing. Because I wrote my first novel Maneater, which is a werewolf novel, in 2006, published 2008. And then I signed the contract we publisher called snow books, and I agreed naively to write two books a year, which I thought, you know, is very exciting.

So I thought, yeah, I’ll do that. And then I was writing a second book. And sort of, I was in into it, and just writing it and I thought, I’m just never going to do this, this just is not going to work. So I just thought, how, how am I going to do it? How am I going to do it? So I just came up with this process of writing. And I, that’s what I used to write all my books for snow books, and the contract, which was two books a year for 4 or 5 years, three books one year, I wrote three books in one year.

So what it is basically is it’s, you know, you write a book in six months, right? You write it in six months. So that’s those six months have broken down, and you’ve got it, you know, you’ve got to, you’ve got to have goals, you’ve got to stick to them. You know, again, you know, no, the chasen cut to it kind of thing. Okay. So, um, the, it starts with the first draft, obviously, and the first draft, I encourage people, and I do it myself, I just, I have an outline, which which I spend about two weeks doing, then I start on a first draft, and I just plow through it.

I just really I do not stop to make corrections. I don’t stop to check spellings. I don’t if there’s something there’s some kind of research I need to do, I’ll just pull need to check this out. I just write and write and write and I, I usually have like 70 to 80,000 word draft in in 8 to 10 weeks. I just plow but how I do that. The goal setting is I think is the kind of the, the engine that drives it.

And how I set goals is I set weekly word targets for myself. Not that you want I think Yeah, well, you know what I think it goes back again to the you know, full time job stuff and you know, full time life, right? And all the kind of advice you get, and I tried this myself all the advice you get is all you got right? Every day you got right every day.

Okay? So you know, so imagine, okay, you’re, you’re starting right? And you say, right, I’m gonna write a novel, I’m gonna write 1000 words every day. So Monday, you get there, and you write, why write 1000 words, great. Tuesday comes along, right? And just life gets in the way. You’re somebody’s deal, or, you know, you’ve got to take the dog to the back toy, you know, you’ve got to, you know, somebody’s work has been a pain, and then you miss that day of work, you missed those 1000 words, and you and psychologically, you just go, you know, what?

I miss a day, that’s pointless, right? And then it’s so hard to get back into it. And I did that myself, you know, missed a day or two of my supposedly right everyday routine. And it was kind of golf start again now. So I thought like it, just it, that’s just, it’s not practical. When you’re trying to work full time, lead a life, you can’t do it. So I thought write weekly goals, right.

So I set weekly goals, my weekly goals on first draft is between 8 and 10,000 words, you can set any goal really want. But because I I needed to finish the novel in in kind of six months, I need that draft done in about 8 to 10. So it was it was it had to be like eight to 10,000 words. So it with, with weekly goals, it doesn’t matter if you miss 1 day or 2, it doesn’t matter if you have to take the dog to the vet, or you know, the the baby sick or you know, you have to take shopping to your mother in law, you know, it doesn’t, during COVID You know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter if you miss a day or 2 days.

You can so long as you hit your goal in those seven days. That’s it, it’s fine. You know, and I’ve done it I’ve, there’s, if you see the book, if you read the book, I use this grid, right, where I track the words every every day, I track away. And so and there are examples of the grids I’ve used for some of my novels in the book. And you’ll see, you’ll see some days with lines through them where I didn’t write, but you see, like, you know, some some weeks, I might work just 3 days, but I still hit the word goal.

And so psychologically, that keeps you going forward, that keeps you going forward. Yeah, you don’t think I missed the day, I missed my writing, I wanted that my everyday writing has gone to pot, you know, so it keeps you going psychologically. So weekly word goals, that was the, that was the kind of little that was the crux of everything. And then it all kind of worked itself out, you know, out from out from there from that center point.

And after that, I use like that crack that I cracked it just with that little, little nugget really, so we could work goals.

Emma Dhesi  23:31

No, I like that. It’s certainly something I agree with that you don’t need to write every day I feel the key is consistency as you do you do need to write regularly. And I like this with your weekly goal. That means that although you don’t need to write every day, you do need to write regularly to keep on top or weekly goal and, and that could That’s enough, that’s all you need to do is just be regularly consistent.

Thomas Emson  23:54

I mean, you could you know, if you don’t like we could go set monthly goals. I mean, you know, just just so long as in that period of time that you hit your goal that that’s you know if that’s that’s the only thing that’s important you know, so I mean we could goals, you know, fortnightly goals monthly just you set the amount of words or pages that you intend to do in that time.

And you know, I mean I have there are examples on on my grids, which are in the book, I’ve hit my weekly word goals and then during the week when I’ve gone on holiday away on holiday, so there’s the whole block of the week apart from like two days mark holiday, but in those two days, I did hit the the word count that I had to do because I thought it did. I’ve got these days to do it.

You know, and it just that work for me that Weekly Work goals and from you know, from reviews and from people I speak to, you know, who’ve read the book, it seems to work for them as well, you know, so, you know, you know, I, that’s, that’s how I work still.

Emma Dhesi  25:15

And so you get your first draft time? and what happens after that?

Thomas Emson  25:20

First draft is done very quickly, as I said, in I’m a bit, I’m a bit sort of weird about these things. So I do it in Arial Arial font, right? So, and then it’s all it’s a mess, right to mess. And then I got back on screen and second draft. It’s, it’s on screen, and I start going through it and tidying it up, tightening it, chiseling it away.

And then when I’ve done a section, I change it to Times New Roman. So it starts to look, yeah, it’s against, you know, just the thing I do. That’s not you know, that’s not a tip. That’s just, that’s just something I do. 

Emma Dhesi  26:05

Oh that’s great. Because then you you know where you’re up to, you can see clearly where you’ve gotten your editing up to where you’re happy with so far.

Thomas Emson  26:12

Yeah, yeah. So it’s, it looks cleaner, you know, that’s just me. So that’s what I saw. I go through the whole, the whole manuscript doing that. And that will usually take you know, two or three weeks, four weeks. No, no, see, ya know, more obviously, yes, it takes more than that. It takes about six weeks. Yeah. I think yeah. So yeah, about six, seven weeks. So I just clean it up, and then then I will print it off.

And then I’ll read it and prove it and correct so, you know, Scrabble again, and it goes through another change then. And so when I was writing, like 2 books, see, I, I only really had the, I could only sort of have about, you know, three, four drafts. But you know, because I was up against a deadline, but that’s okay. I you know, I mean, deadlines.

I love deadlines anyway, because I’ve lived with them for all my working life anyway. So deadlines are great for me, I’m happy with them. So you know, that again, pushes me forward. So, so yeah, so so then I go through it again, and you know, correct it. And then sort of until you know, it’s just a process then of going through and through and through and then until it till you’re happy with it.

You know, you can never say until it’s ready. I’m sure you know that. You know, because oh, you just go on and on and on when you but until you’re you know, you think yeah, this is this is ready to go all this is done happy with this. Yeah. But yeah, so that’s the process, really, you know.

Emma Dhesi  27:47

I like it, I like it. I wonder if I can just take you right back to the beginning of that process and ask him about the plotting.

Thomas Emson  27:54

Oh, yeah. Okay, sure.

Emma Dhesi  27:54

How, You said that takes you about two weeks, I’m wondering, for your own process for your own your own writing? Are you very detailed in your plots? Or do you have a kind of just a maybe some bullet points or an overarching plot? Or do you go down into detail, but with each chapter and what’s going to be in each chapter?

Thomas Emson  28:13

So yeah, so I spend about two weeks trying to come up with an outline, and I write my books in scenes. So all my all my chapters are very short. So so my novels usually have between like 60 and 80 scenes, which, which eventually, you know, when it works out, but 100 chapters, but anyway, yes, so it’s not, it’s not hugely detailed. It’s, it’s, you know, two or three sentences per per scene, really.

And obviously, there are scenes so they’re self contained actions. As opposed to chap, the the traditional chapter where there’s a few scenes that make it up, but yeah, so it’s so. So yeah, two or three, two or three sentences, just a rough idea I start off with, I start off with plot points. So I’ll start off with what the what the opening images, what the end is, and then with the sort of the first back switch first perhaps, you know, a turning point, a mid point, and sort of a second act turning point.

So I’ll know those and then I’ll sort of, you know, are they in, seems to build up to those. So it’s quite tight, tightly structured, I mean, you know, I’m, I quite like structure and shape to the story. But then once I saw I’ll have the, the, I’ll have the sort of outlines.

There are examples of some of my outlines in the book and how to write a novel in six months as well. Couple of outline examples. And then, so I so then, I’ll have The outline and then I’ll start writing my first draft. I often, you know, often the case is that I will veer away from the outline, and that’s fine. That’s okay. You know,

Emma Dhesi  30:12

Are you trying to come back to it, are you happy to let the story go and see where it? 

Thomas Emson  30:17

Yeah, I mean, if I mean, I usually sort of get to the end, because my ending is quite clear, sometimes I’m pretty clear on how I want to end, sometimes not always, but I’m pretty clear on sort of the kind of ending I want. And my books never ended cleanly, you know?

So, so I would, you know, it’s like, having been going on a journey, isn’t it, and you, you know, your destination, and you have, you know, you have Google Maps telling you how to get there, but, but you might take a side road, you know, but you know, as long as you kind of get there, so it’s kind of, it’s kind of like that, so I don’t really mind, you know, veering away from the from the outline, it’s, it’s like a little it’s a little map, isn’t it a little map to get you there in the end?

That’s how I, you know, do it, but it’s, they don’t, it doesn’t. It’s not, it’s not a completely different book, by the time I finished, but it you know, it can change and, you know, I let characters do what they want, you know?

Emma Dhesi  31:27

And if you always be happy to do that, or is that freedom with your storytelling comes from experience and knowing and knowing how you work? Because I think some new writers get caught up in having their plotline and sticking to it and fearing that if they if they follow their instinct, they might end up who knows where, so is that ever been for you? has experienced taught you just to trust your instincts with this?

Thomas Emson  31:56

Yeah, just just Yes, I think so. Yes. Because you’re going to get somewhere in the end, you know, and the thing is, anyway, if if you do completely go off track and start writing, and your story goes on a completely different route? Well, that’s fine, isn’t it? You know, just keep going with it. Because no one’s going to see it until you decide it’s ready for somebody to see.

So you know, no one’s gonna criticize you for doing that until you decided, you know, here it is, take it away, criticize it. So you know, just just, just just go with it. Really? I mean, I would kind of, I think, I think it’s, I think it’s a good idea to kind of know where you want to end, vaguely kind of a, you know, I think you know, and I think that’s why that’s why structure is is important to me, especially, you know, beginning, middle, end, I think that that’s kind of, I like to have an idea of beginning, middle and end, but you also did within those parameters. I mean, you know, you can go anywhere and do whatever you want.

And if you don’t end up there, well, you know, just Okay, so that’s your first draft. So just go just second draft, then it just, it’s just don’t panic, isn’t it?

Emma Dhesi  33:22

Yes. Don’t panic. Now, you mentioned there that for most of your stories, you knew what the ending is going to be? You know, where your end point is, when you get there? Yeah. So do you think that’s one of the one of the ways to make sure that a writer finishes their novel? Is that one of the…?

Thomas Emson  33:41

Yeah, I think so. You know, I know a lot of people are a seat of their pants writers. And I’ve done that myself. I’ve written without having a clue where I’m going. I know that Stephen King by select that, you know, a lot of people write like that. And that’s fine. That’s great. You know, and it does work. But I think if you, I think if you’re starting out.

And, you know, even for those of us who’ve done it a few times, you know, I think it just feels it’s a bit of a safety net, you know, it’s just a safety net. And it does drive you forward. Because you because what can happen. I know that this can happen if you’re, if you haven’t maybe written a novel before and you’re doing seat of your pants, is that you will, you might hit wall and you don’t know how to break through it.

And you might just give up. But if you’ve got that out la, well, you kind of know what the next scene is. So even if, if you’re stuttering with one scene, you think this isn’t working? Well, you can always move on to the next one, you know and see how it kind of moves along. So So I think, you know, I’m not gonna say I, I definitely recommend it because people have got to find their own way.

But, you know, I, I think that having outlines is is, is certainly helpful and helpful, especially if you if you’re kind of newish new right to kind of thing you know, I think it helps. 

Emma Dhesi  35:22

Yeah, I certainly wrote my first book with no plot, no plan whatsoever. And I did exactly as you described, I went down some side tracks, and I had to then just go back to back right back. four chapters, and then Okay, start again.

Thomas Emson  35:39

I think outlines just just save you time. Especially, I mean, if you, especially, you know, because I have to write two books a year, you know, I had to find, find ways to save time and having having outlines. You know, it helps. for sure.

Emma Dhesi  35:58

I’m slowly moving towards them, I see the benefit of them. I’m just trying to find the right way of doing it for me. So it’s Yeah, an error at the moments. 

Thomas Emson  36:06

Exactly. I mean, that you know, that there are different ways of doing outlines as well aren’t that, you know, I mean, you could just have, I mean, you could just have vague ideas of what you want in each part of the book, or you can have detail chapter breakdowns, you know, so I mean, yes, finding a way of doing it, I just just scribble, scribble a few sentences is what I do, that’s what I do.

And that gives me, that gives me both that kind of structure that I need. And also it gives gives me the lead way to divert if I need to, because it’s not such a strict breakdown of what’s going on. So you know, it sort of kind of a middle ground reality. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  36:59

I love that. So just to recap for our listeners, give yourself a plot or an outline something that’s got some structure to it to keep you on the straight and narrow, so you don’t go too far wrong. Then get that dirty first draft down, as it’s sometimes called… 

Thomas Emson  37:15

the first draft. That’s important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  37:17

And from there, you’ve got, you can do your revisions and your edits from there until you are ready to show somebody somebody the story.

Thomas Emson  37:25

Yeah. Yeah, it’s, you know, the thing is, it’s better to have, it’s better to have a crap first draft and no first draft at all. 

Emma Dhesi  37:34

Exactly. I couldn’t agree more. Yeah. And even with a crappy first draft, there’s still an element of I think writers should still feel an element of what’s the word? I’m looking for achievement from that, because you’ve created something out of nothing, even if it’s not brilliant? Absolutely, yeah.

This world in the story and these characters, and that’s, that’s not to be sniffed out at all? 

Thomas Emson  37:58

No, it’s like, it’s like having a piece of marble, isn’t it? And then you start chiseling it. And it takes shape. You know, that’s what it is, or just any, any old piece of clay and you start to shape it, that’s what it is, you know, I mean, just think of it as just a piece of clay and then you start shaping it. So you know, yeah. 

Emma Dhesi  38:16

It’s nice, a nice analogy there. And so in your experience of working with, with writers, new writers, what are some of the one or two of the sort of bigger mistakes that you see?

See them make, we’ve mentioned not having a structure and not having an outline, I wonder if there’s one or two other things that you could suggest to our listeners that they might want to consider?

Thomas Emson  38:39

One of the things I see is over writing, and the need to the need to show off how you know that they’re writing. Just let just tell the story, and let the characters speak. Don’t nobody, you know, nobody really cares what you think. We just want to hear what the story is and what the characters think, you know. 

Emma Dhesi  39:08

That’s funny. I used to be I used to act and one of my directors used to see that all the time as well. And it’s don’t overwrite don’t over act. Just Yeah, the story is what you’d see just…

Thomas Emson  39:21

Read the line… Elmore Leonard says you know if I if I, if I see writing I rewrite it.

Emma Dhesi  39:32

Okay, I think I get that 

Thomas Emson  39:34

I know. Yeah, well what he means is obviously if if if there’s too much you know, if it purple prose and you know, sort of just this need to kind of just this need to show off you know, just this need to kind of look how clever I am, you know, just just tell the story straight and that there is a lot of this and also another thing is that one thing I see is the first session So the first bit of a story, you know, you can from stories I’ve seen from new writers who you know, did teach, teach some, a little bit of creative writing.

So what I see often is that you could cut out half the first page, you know, just just doesn’t necessary just again, you know, cut to the chase, you know, just cut to the chase, get into the story, you know, don’t, I always like to drop readers right into the middle of the story, drop them in, you know, and then they’re, then they’re there, you know, don’t kind of, you know, don’t sort of wave at them from a distance and say,

Come here, because they might get bored by the time they get to you, you know, just drop them in, you know, so I see that a lot, that people are totally unsure about how to start. And that’s hard, isn’t it? Right, in those first words, again, you know, the first draft, just put anything down, but that those first words are so hard. And then you end up, then you can end up sort of just waffling on and describing, you know, describing the weather and describing all kinds of things.

You know, don’t, don’t, don’t tell me about the weather, you know, just get into the story. You know, that’s…

Emma Dhesi  40:44

Do you think, though, that sometimes, as writers, we need to do that, we need to get that description down. We need it because we’re trying to ground ourselves in the story. And so…

Thomas Emson  41:37

I think that, yes, that’s right, I think that’s good to do it in the first draft, isn’t it, that’s where you do it, just do it there. And then, then you you get a feel of what you’re doing, then you get a feel of where you are. And then you realize, then you know, that you don’t need as much as your you’ve actually written, you know, you can always pare it back at you.

And, you know, you have to be, I think, I think, I think new writers who are not critical enough of their own writing, you know, they write something and they look at it, and they think it’s, it’s all neat and beautiful, you know, but what you need to do you need to get in there with, you know, with scissors and blades and start hacking away at it.

You know, that’s what you need to do. 

Emma Dhesi  42:25

And that skill that comes with time being able to do that. Top skin. Yeah.

Thomas Emson  42:28

Well, yeah, that I think that does. I think that, you know, I find that with with students, and you know, that they are so reluctant to touch even first drafts that they do you know, that they’re there, they’re sort of concerned about, they think that they’ve created this thing that they love so much, you know, but you know, what, what piece of advice, you know, kill your darlings.

You know, that’s, that’s another piece of writing advice, you know, these little, you know, aphorisms are great, you know, and they are helpful, but you know, so you’ve got to just you look at it, and you think that’s just not good enough, you know, just dive in there and start hacking and just, you know, make it good, you know, make it good.

You know, luckily, you know, but learning Yeah, you’re right, learning that learning to be critical of your own work is hard. It’s hard, which again, was journalism helped me without, to be critical. Yeah. You know, because you you had to be, or somebody else would be, and they would tell you, as well, my… Yeah. You know.

So yeah, so you know, you have to learn to be critical. It’s hard, but try.

Emma Dhesi  43:40

When I told my son, we’re just aware that we’re out of time. And I said, but I wanted to ask you, you know, what are you working on? Now? I know that you’ve got quite a back catalogue these days. Are you? Are you working on anything? And you fiction that we should know? Right?

Thomas Emson  43:55

Yes, I’ve just finished a novella called I am bones, which is about a writer’s creation that seems to come to life and take sort of very nasty vengeance on anybody who’s critical of her writing. And I so I finished that. And then I’m now about three quarters of the way through of redrafting, a West wild west horror novel.

It’s called Beasts came up, it’s called and so I’m sort of I’m, I tell her technical titles is that I have to have a title before I can really start writing. So, so, so yeah, so I’m working on that. So I should have that hopefully finished by Christmas or early New Year, then I’ll I’ll send both together off to my agent to sort of see what she thinks. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  45:05

Fantastic. And now just thinking as well. So for anyone who’s new to your work, which of your books do you think is a good? A good starting point, a good introduction to your style and the type of story you tell? 

Thomas Emson  45:18

Well, I’m on my first novel MANEATER to it’s a werewolf novel. So that that’s probably a good place to start. Although sort of one of the most one of a book that was one of my books that was most it’s a Marmite book. Really.

People either love it, really love it, or really hate it. And it’s it is it kind of epitomizes what the kind of thing I’m trying to do. It’s zombie Britannica. So it’s my zombie novel. And it’s it, you know, it, I intended it to be, throw the reader into the story and just go, so it’s it’s really kind of fast paced.

So you know, that kind of epitomizes the kind of thing I do, but you know, yeah, it’s always good to start with money to the first one, then go on to the second one. And the third one, you know, but yeah, continue. Yeah.

Emma Dhesi  46:14

Well, I’ll be sure to link to all of your books in our show notes. Now, where can listeners find out more about you online? 

Thomas Emson  46:22

Okay, so yeah, mywebsite is Thomasemson.com You can sign up to a newsletter there, you get a collection of horror stories free. You can also find me on Twitter at Thomas Edison. And, yeah, that’s where I’ll be, unless I’m writing.

Emma Dhesi  46:44

Fantastic. But Thomas, thank you so much for your time today.

Thomas Emson  46:48

Thank you, Emma, thank you very much.

Emma Dhesi  46:51

Before you go, I want to tell you about my Patreon page, whenever anyone supports the show, it expresses just how much you’re enjoying the content and how much you want it to continue. Your support helps maintain the podcast and keeps it going. It means I can create better resources for you, when you’re listening to the podcast or checking out the web page, it means I can focus on getting a higher reach of audience.

And when we get a higher reach of audience, we can get more guests, guests that are really going to help you and then who knows where it will go from there as a new podcaster and someone who’s starting out and finding their feet in the podcasting world. Just as I’m helping you find your feet in the writing world. I can’t do it alone. I always need help.

So I’d love it. If you would support the show by signing up. There’s just one to $3 a month. And for that I’ll make sure that each week I’m delivering the best podcast I can for you. And as a way of saying thanks.

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See you next time.

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Emma Dhesi

Emma writes women’s fiction. She began writing seriously while a stay at home mum with 3 pre-school children.

By changing her mindset, being consistent and developing confidence, Emma has gone from having a collection of handwritten notes to a fully written, edited and published novel.

Having experienced first-hand how writing changes lives, Emma now helps beginner writers find the time and confidence to write their first novel.